Wauthy family, Henry and Remy

Descendants and ancestors of Henry Wauthy...

According to MW, as of 2024-12-30, the earliest known ancestor in the Wauthy line of interest is Henry Wauthy, father of Remigius (Remy) Wauthy (born 1663). This relationship is substantiated by a baptismal record for Remy. There is no birth record or marriage record for Henry to tell us his age or who his parents were, though.

Of the progressive surnames that are in play, (Walter, Walters, Walteri, Waltier, Waultier, Wauthier, Wauthy), Henry's name on Remy's baptismal record (1663) is clearly written as Wauthy, but this is 1663 when the name Wauthy with this spelling was becoming more commonplace. On earlier records, should something someday be found, the surname could well be different. While looking backward from Henry is vague, descendants going forward are known. At the bottom of this page is a list showing four more generations of Wauthy before the name changes to Thibeau.

We can use Henry's wife's birth record to estimate the birth date of Henry. Elisabeth Masy was born in 1630. Conventions would suggest that Henry was born between 1625 and 1630. Granted this, we can speculate that Henry's father may have been born between 1595 and 1605, and his mother, perhaps younger, but in the same date range.

It is this naming of his son that has made me wonder: why would Henry's first son not be named Henry? In modern times, it would be quite common for Henry and Elisabeth to do so. I can think of one possibilty. Perhaps there was a son born earlier for which there has been no record found as yet, a son the couple did name Henry. And if not true, why name the firstborn son, or any son, Remy?

At the time in history, naming the firstborn son Remy might indicate that Henry's father was named Remy, or that there was another prominent family member named Remy. Remy's mother Elisabeth's father was named Jean, so not him. I think it would be more traditional to choose the name from the father's side though there may be reasons for doing otherwise.

ChatGPT suggested another possibility - that naming the boy Remy would be a way for recent immigrants to help assimilate themselves into a predominant existing culture. Remy was a popular name at the time and in that place. "The name Remy could (simply) have been given in honor of Saint Remigius (Saint Rémi), reflecting the family's or community's religious devotion." With this caution, let's explore the possibility that there is an earlier family member, possibly Remy's grandfather, who inspired the name Remy...

MW did find a record for a Marguerite Walteri (Margaret in English, Margareta in Latin) born December 3rd, 1623 in "Villers" (Villers-Poterie, near Gougnies), daughter of a Remigii Walteri, Latin for Remy Walter. MW did not find any records for other children for Remigii Walteri, but Henry would fit as being a son, brother to Marguerite, born about this same time, in the window of lost records (between 1625-1629). Henry, in turn, naming his son Remy after his own father makes sense. And Henry naming his third daughter Marguerite after this Marguerite (who would be his sister) or her namesake also makes sense.

Transcription: "Villers 3rd Decembris baptizata fuit filia remigii Walteri et Anne uxoris ejus, susceptores Joanne Paradisi et Margareta Robert, fuitque vocata Margareta".

This effectively translates as: "Villers 3rd December was baptized a daughter of Remigii Walteri and his wife Anne, godparents are Joanne Paradisi and Margareta Robert, and the child was named Margareta".

Note: the year 1623 comes from the page title. This is a link to the original document at the Belgium Archives site. Requires login.

Remigii Walteri (in Latin, Remy in French)...

If Remigii (Remy) Walteri (father of MargaretaWalteri) is also Henry's father, this puts this Remy's birth year as being circa 1600, in that date range of 1595 to 1605.

Remy's wife's name is recorded as Anne (mother of Margareta Walteri), but no surname is given. Her birth year, by association, would be circa 1600 plus one or two. If either of the godparents are Anne's mother or sister, her surname could be Paradisi or Robert, with a lean either way - towards Joannis or Margareta.

Remy and Anne would have married circa 1621. This supports Marguerite's birth year of 1623 and Henry's birth year of being between 1625 and 1629.

The name Remigii (Remy) is definitely not of English origin. While this Remy would have been born in Wallonia, he would need to have a father or grandfather of English origin to fit the family lore.

In reverse logic, the name Henry for an earlier ancestor would make some sense as the name of this speculative grandfather of Henry, father of Remigii, if Henry was the firstborn son. This earlier Henry would need to be born c1575 to be the father of Remigii. But to be named Henry suggests he was more likely born in England than in Belgium.

According to MW: "There are at least three different Wauthy family lines in Belgium, one of which has a paper trail back to the 1300's." The three lines can be defined by DNA testing results. MW's ancestral line tested positive for Haplogroup I1, while another Wauthy line tested positive fo R1b-DF19 and a third line tested positive for R1b-DF27. The earliest individual's name is Beghein Wautier, from Baulers, Walloon Brabant, Belgium.

These earlier Belgian Wauthys are not in play when looking for earlier ancestors of Henry or his speculative father Remigii, but they do over time establish the name Wauthy in Belgium. This took until about the mid-17th century.

If these earlier Belgians don't link up, then the question becomes: where did an earlier ancestor emigrate from, and in what year?

MW states: "There was always an unsubstantiated understanding in the history of my family that maybe we ended up in Wallonia Belgium to escape Catholic persecution in England and to avoid the English Civil War."

MW: "I think anytime after Henry VIII's initial religious changes in 1531 CE is plausible. So theoretically anytime within four generations prior to Henry Wauthy circa 1628 CE. If Remigius Walteri born circa 1600 CE is Henry's father then it's possible that the immigrant ancestor from England could be as distant as (1575 CE, 1550 CE, 1525 CE, 1500 CE) 4 generations back in time. An individual born around circa 1500 CE in England and then emigrates from England to Belgium with his family circa 1535 CE."

ChatGPT categorizes the migrations into blocks of time.

Protestants (Early Reformation Period, 1520s–1550s) frequently chose the Low Countries (Modern Belgium and the Netherlands), Antwerp, Ghent, or Bruges.
Catholics (Post-1530s, During Henry VIII and Elizabeth I's Reigns) frequently chose the Spanish Netherlands, Catholic regions of the Low Countries, including Brabant (modern Belgium).
Puritans and Separatists (Late 1500s) chose The Netherlands. Cities like Amsterdam and Leiden became major centers for English Separatists due to their relatively tolerant stance on religious diversity.

It wasn't until the early 1600's that North America became a destination.

Of these, it is the Catholic migration, post-1530's that fits.

Henry Wauthy's name on the baptismal record for son "Remigius" is written as Henri. While this might indicate Belgian (French) heritage, ChatGPT estimates a 65% chance that someone with the name Henry would be of English descent. Deliberately written as Henry, 100%.

Henry's daughters with Catherine Masy were, in order, named Marie, Catherine and Marguerite. Marie was likely named after her godmother (a traditional choice). Catherine was named after Elisabeth's mother (another traditional choice). Marguerite, though, could have been named after someone on Henry's side of the family. Marguerite could have been the name of Henry's mother or sister (or both).

A speculative representation of possible ancestors of Henry Wauthy, father of Remy Wauthy...

This representation shows possible ancestors of Henry Wauthy who is, at present, the earliest known direct ancestor in the Wauthy line. It also shows a possible fit for a John Waltier (wife Margareta Bolle and daughter Margareta Waltier) as a brother to the Remy (Walteri) of interest.

Looking backward, if John Waltier was to be related, it suggests that the earlier speculative emigrant Henry Walter might have had a father named John Walter, perhaps the in the family left behind in England. Successive English names in Belgian persons wouldn't align with the family's move towards French names like Remy and Feuillen.

The parts that are speculative are noted.

The representation continues into later generations of the known ancestry to make a clearer picture. Far more details can be found on the Wauthy page.

This is but one path of many possibilities - should the name be unconventional or should there be more generations between the known ancestors and the original emigrant, everything will be widened.

The search may have to be picked up in England - with great difficulty, since the name is not exactly known, the family status of the emigrant is not known, the time of emigration is not known, the points of embarkation and arrival are not known, and the time between arrival and the first known ancestral recorded event (the marriage of Henry Wauthy and Elisabeth Masy, before c1655) is not known.

Henry Walter (speculative details)

born in England circa 1570
leaves England for Belgium circa 1595, as a young single man
marries Marguerite? _______ circa 1597 in Wallonia
children:
- John/Johann/Joannis Walter/Waltier (speculative fit)
  - born c1598
  - marries Margareta Bolle in the year _____ in ______
  - children:
    - Margareta Waltier
      - born April 11, 1631
      - from Les Flaches
      - link to this baptismal record at the Belgian Archives

Remy/Remigii Walter/Walteri (speculative)
- born c1600
- marries Anne _______ , born c1600
- children:
  - Marguerite Walteri
    - born December 3rd, 1623
    - daughter of Remigii Walteri and Anna _________
    - godparents were Joanne Paradis and Margareta Robert
    - image is reprised here, from its place above, see translation above

Henry Waulteri (speculative)
- born c1627
- marries Elisabeth Masy (born 1630) before 1655/1657
- children:
  - Henry ? (speculative)
    - born c1655

Marie Wauthy

born 1657, in Gougnies, Gerpinnes, Hainaut, Belgium
Godparents were Marie Gerard and Antoine Dubois

Catherine Wauthy

Born 1659, in Gougnies, Gerpinnes, Hainaut, Belgique
Godparents were Catherine Masy and Michael Rudelle

Marguerite Wauthy

born 1661, in Gougnies, Gerpinnes, Hainaut, Belgium

Godparents were François Masy and Marguerite Wauthy

Remy Wauthy

born October 2nd, 1663

grandson of Remigii Walteri / Remy Walter (speculative)
married on February 25, 1686, in Sart-Eustache, Fosses-la-Ville, Namur, Belgium, to Marie Bruire

children:
- Marie Wauthy
  - born 1687

Jean Wauthy
- born 1688, in Sart-Eustache

Marie-Marguerite Wauthy
- born 1691, in Sart-Eustache

Marie-Françoise Wauthy
- born 1692, in Sart-Eustache

Marie-Agnes Wauthy
- born 1695, in Sart-Eustache

Feuillen Wauthy
- born November 17, 1696, in Sart-Eustache
- married with children, see Wauthy page for details.

Remy Wauthy died on September 21, 1738, in Sart-Eustache, Fosses-la-Ville, Namur, Belgium, 10 days shy of his 75th birthday

obit for remi

Marie Bruire died on December 26, 1752, about 87 years old

Henry Wauthy died _________
Elisabeth Masy (born 1630) died _________

(This representation continues through many more generations on the Wauthy page.)

MW: as of 2024-12-18, son Remy's birth is the last genealogical record for this couple. Neither Henry nor Elisabeth were chosen as godparents for their grandchildren.

Note: on 01/19/2022, the funeral and death certificates for Saint Michel parish, between 01/01/1692 and 12/31/1730, were flagged as "not available".

Appendix...

ChatGPT was given pointed questions to help explain some of the naming possibilities for the period of time in which a new, earlier, ancestor might be found.

Using this information with the known names may provide the guidance needed to look in the right places for the right names.

There must be an emigrant ancestor, but in which generation did this ancestor emigrate and from where?

The sections below have these titles...

Prioritized Ways Parents Named Their Children in 16th-17th Century Belgium
Names Typically Avoided in 16th-17th Century Belgium
The etymology of the name Walter changing over time to Wauthy
Summary, Etymological Path
Summary of the Written Evolution
Summary of Etymology with Illiteracy

Prioritized Ways Parents Named Their Children in 16th-17th Century Belgium:

(prepared by ChatGPT)

Family Tradition:

Naming after a parent, grandparent, or recent ancestor to honor lineage.
Firstborn sons often named after the paternal grandfather; firstborn daughters after the maternal grandmother.

Religious Influence:

Names of saints, particularly local or popular saints (e.g., Remy, Jacques).
Feast days and patron saints tied to the child's baptism date.

Social/Community Respect:

Names of prominent figures in the community (e.g., mayors, landowners).
Influential religious or political leaders.

Sibling Patterning:

Reusing names of deceased siblings to keep them "alive" in memory.
Avoiding repetition of names among living siblings in the same household.

Godparent Naming:

Often named after the godfather or godmother, especially in Catholic traditions.

Cultural Integration:

Adapting names to align with local culture, especially among immigrants.
Using localized forms of names (e.g., Henri for Henry).

Practicality/Popularity:

Common and easily recognized names within the region.
Avoiding obscure or overly unique names to ensure social inclusion.

Inheritance Expectations:

Naming heirs to reflect anticipated roles or responsibilities, reinforcing continuity in family roles or landholding.

Personal Preferences:

Uncommon but possible, reflecting a unique choice by the parents.

This structure merges societal norms of naming while accounting for the cultural and religious diversity of 16th- and 17th-century Belgium.

Names Typically Avoided in 16th-17th Century Belgium:

(prepared by ChatGPT)

Living Family Members' Names:

Avoided within the same household to prevent confusion (e.g., siblings rarely shared the same name).

Uncommon or Foreign Names:

Names not easily recognizable or pronounceable in the local community.
Out-of-place names that could draw unwanted attention or suspicion.

Taboo or Ill-Fated Names:

Names associated with tragic family history or infamous individuals.
Avoidance of names linked to heretical or controversial figures.

"Unavailable" Names Due to Godparents:

If a godparent's name had already been given to an earlier sibling, it might not be reused.

Occupational/Ephemeral Names:

Names tied to temporary trends or occupations not rooted in tradition or religion.

These avoided names helped maintain order, respect, and cultural alignment within families and communities.

The etymology of the name Walter changing over time to Wauthy...

ChatGPT: "The etymology of the name Walter evolving into Wauthy in Belgium during the late 16th and early 17th centuries could indeed be due to a sound shift and how names were recorded in different languages and dialects. The progression likely involves both phonetic changes and the influence of local dialects or scribes' interpretations.

Here's a potential progression that might have taken place:

Walter (Original form): The name Walter is of Germanic origin, derived from Walthari (Old High German waltan = "to rule" + heri = "army"). It would have been common in Western Europe, including regions of the Low Countries, particularly among Germanic-speaking populations or immigrants.

First Transformation (Sound shifts):

In Flemish (Dutch), there could be a shift in the pronunciation of W and V, which are often interchangeable in dialects of this region, especially as spoken accents influence how names are pronounced.

The -er ending might be softened, especially in the context of rural or peasant speech, leading to something like Walt or Wal.

Phonetic Approximation:

The Walter name might have been pronounced with a softer or regional twist, perhaps like Waalter or Wauter, in the early forms. This could have been further modified by local dialects.

The vowel sounds may also have shifted. The short a in Walter could have evolved into a more open au sound in Flemish dialects, and this would lead to a transformation like Wauter or Waut.

Further Simplification and French Influence:

During the late 16th and early 17th centuries, French was a dominant language in official and written records in parts of Belgium (particularly in areas under Habsburg influence). In this context, the name could have been adapted to match French phonetics and orthography, as French tends to soften consonants and have fluid vowel sounds.

Walter might have been recorded as Wauthier (adding a French-influenced -ier ending, common in names).

Final Evolution to Wauthy:

Over time, the pronunciation of Wauthier could have undergone a local phonetic simplification, particularly in more rural or illiterate communities, where names were passed down by sound rather than written form.

The -ier might have dropped or been softened to -y, which is a common ending in French-influenced regions of Belgium (e.g., Lefevre becoming Lefevy). This would yield Wauthy as the final form, both phonetically and in writing.

Summary Etymological Path:

Walter -> Wauter (Flemish dialect shift) -> Wauthier (French adaptation) -> Wauthy (local simplification)

This kind of transformation could happen as people migrated and settled in new regions, where their names were either recorded phonetically by officials or transformed in daily speech, influenced by both local dialects and the language of the area. Such sound shifts were common in the period, and they may have been especially pronounced in Belgium, where the linguistic landscape was complex, with influences from both French and Flemish dialects, along with Germanic roots."

Q: How would the written name have evolved on records like baptisms?

ChatGPT said: "In baptismal records, names were often recorded phonetically by priests or clerks, many of whom were influenced by regional dialects, the local language of the time, and their personal interpretations of pronunciation. As a result, the written form of a name like Walter could evolve significantly over time, particularly in a multilingual region like 16th and 17th-century Belgium. Here's how this evolution could unfold in written records:

Initial Recording (16th Century):

Immigrants arriving with the name Walter would pronounce it according to their native language, but the priest or clerk, influenced by the local vernacular, would record it phonetically.

The spelling might be close to the original form, but with some variation based on how the name sounded in the local dialect. For example:

Walter, Waldier or Walther (this could reflect a regional Dutch influence, where the sound "th" is softened or pronounced as "t").

Waldier might even be recorded as Wauter if the vowel sounds were simplified in the local speech (in Belgian Dutch or Flemish).

Evolution in French Influence (Late 16th to Early 17th Century):

With French becoming more influential in official records, the name would likely begin to be adapted to French spelling conventions.

In French, the “-er” ending could be softened or altered to fit a more common phonetic structure. The name Walter could start appearing as:

Wauthier or Waultier (the -er ending becomes -ier, a common feature in French surnames).

Alternatively, Wauthier could be written as Wauthi, where the clerks are attempting to represent the spoken sound but using more familiar French orthographic patterns.

Simplification (Mid to Late 17th Century):

By the mid-to-late 17th century, many regions had moved toward even further simplification in written records, especially in rural areas where literacy rates were lower. Clerks would often drop letters that weren't necessary to represent the name phonetically.

The influence of local dialects would also result in more common regional variations:

Wauthier -> Wauthy (the final -ier could be dropped in favor of a more simplified ending, a common pattern in the Flemish and Walloon regions).

The use of -y instead of -ier would likely reflect both a phonetic change (simplified pronunciation) and the influence of a written French-style surname.

In the case of a more French-speaking community, it could even become Wauthé (though this form is less likely).

Final Written Form:

As the name continued to be used across generations, the written form would stabilize, and the Walter derivative could have evolved into the more consistently spelled Wauthy. This would be especially true if the name appeared in a town or village where French was dominant in church records, but the local dialect kept the Wauthy pronunciation.

The written name Wauthy would eventually become standardized, particularly as literacy rates improved and official record-keeping became more formalized in the 18th century.

Summary of the Written Evolution:

Walter ->Waldier / Walther (local dialect variations)

Waldier -> Wauter (simplified vowels)

Wauter -> Wauthier (French adaptation)

Wauthier -> Wauthy (simplification)

The shift from Walter to Wauthy in baptismal records would involve a combination of phonetic changes, clerical interpretation, and the evolving linguistic influences of the time, particularly French in the context of Belgium."

Q: How would not being literate affect the etymology?

ChatGPT: "Illiteracy would have a significant impact on the evolution of names, both in terms of their pronunciation and written forms. In the case of Walter evolving into Wauthy, illiteracy would likely amplify the phonetic nature of name changes and make them more susceptible to regional speech patterns, as well as the interpretation of name forms by clerks or priests. Here's how it could affect the process:

1. Pronunciation Shifts Due to Illiteracy:

Phonetic Transmission: People who are illiterate often rely more heavily on spoken language and auditory perception rather than written forms of words. So, when someone named Walter would say their name, it would be pronounced based on their local dialect and speech patterns.

Simplification of Vowels and Consonants: Without an understanding of spelling conventions, people might simplify or alter vowel sounds and consonants unconsciously. This would likely lead to a version of the name that is easier to pronounce and remember in the local dialect.

For example, the -er ending in Walter might shift to a simpler vowel sound, perhaps becoming Wauter, which sounds more natural to speakers of Flemish or French.

The -er might also be softened further to a sound closer to -é (influenced by French), as local speech patterns typically do not differentiate between -er and -é in some regions.

2. Impact on Written Records:

Phonetic Spellings: When illiterate individuals were asked to provide their names, it is likely that they either relied on someone else to write them down or the clerk wrote the name as they heard it. This could lead to variations in spelling, often reflecting the sound of the name more than any consistent orthographic convention.

If the local speech favored a simplified pronunciation like Wauter, the person taking the record might have written it that way, without worrying about "correct" spelling.

In areas where French influence was strong, an illiterate person's name might be recorded as Wauthier or even Wauthy, since the -ier ending was more familiar to clerks or priests familiar with French spelling conventions.

3. Repetition and Stabilization:

Transmission through Oral Tradition: In illiterate communities, oral tradition was the dominant mode of communication, meaning names were passed down through speech rather than written records. Once a name like Wauthy began to be spoken by family members and recorded this way, it could become ingrained as the established form within the community.

Written Records Adapt to Speech: As written records were often created by clerks who were literate but not necessarily native to the area (and thus more attuned to the local speech), names would continue to evolve in the way they were spoken. If the family continued to pronounce it as Wauthy, it is likely that the written form would stabilize around that version.

4. Influence of Local Clerks and Priests:

Interpretation of Sounds: Clerks or priests in regions with heavy illiteracy would rely on their own interpretations of how the name sounded in the local dialect. In Flemish areas, for example, the -er sound might be misheard as -ar or -ay, leading to the name evolving as Wauthy. The scribe might not recognize the name as an established Walter, but rather treat it as a completely new form based on what was said aloud.

5. Simplified and Localized Variations:

Non-standardized Spelling: Without literacy to standardize spellings, variations in name recording were commonplace. An illiterate family member might pronounce their name Walt or Waut, and a priest or clerk would write it based on this auditory cue.

If the community was largely French-speaking or heavily influenced by French orthographic norms, the ending could be recorded as -ier or -y regardless of the original form, as local speech would dominate in shaping the name.

6. Examples of Impact:

For example, a person named Walter from an illiterate family in a Flemish-speaking area might have pronounced the name as Wauter (with an open “au” sound). A priest or clerk hearing this might write it as Wauter or even Wauthier if they were familiar with French spelling conventions.

Over time, as the pronunciation continued to be simplified and passed down, the final -ier ending could become -y, and the name would evolve into Wauthy. The continued use of this version of the name in oral and written records would stabilize the name's final form.

Summary of Etymology with Illiteracy:

Pronunciation Shift: Walter -> Wauter (simplified vowels, influenced by local dialects).

Clerical Interpretation: Wauter -> Wauthier or Wauty (clerk interprets spoken name using local or French conventions).

Simplification: Wauthier -> Wauthy (name becomes stabilized in spoken and written forms over time).

In illiterate communities, names would evolve primarily through sound, with written forms adapting to phonetic changes. Local dialects and the person writing the record would play a significant role in shaping the final written form, leading to variations that might not be immediately recognizable as derived from the original name."